Video Transcript

Emily Mentock: Hi, and welcome back to The Real + True Podcast. I am your host, Emily Mentock.

Edmund Mitchell: And I’m Edmund Mitchell.

Emily Mentock: And on our podcast today, we are exploring the mission of Real + True: to unlock the Catechism for the modern world. This podcast exists because we want to help equip you to use the Catechism for evangelization and catechesis. So we are going to be sharing a little bit of behind-the-scenes of the process for each unit, and diving deeper into our topic, especially as we cover this pillar of prayer; Christian prayer. So this unit is all about prayer as having its wellsprings in the Holy Spirit and the Church. And we’ll be talking specifically about using Church documents; the Catechism, Scripture, and the formalized prayers of the Church from the liturgy in our evangelization and catechesis. So just to kick things off, Edmund, I’d love to ask you: Where did you learn to pray? How did you learn to pray? And how do you pray with the Church today?

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. I’m really excited about this part because I feel like if people do answer this call to have evangelizing catechesis, and that prayer is about relationship—like we talked about in the past episodes—that is so important. That’s a great first step. But in my own life, I started there, and it took me a long time to get to this next step, which is doing that within the context of the Church. So for me, prayer was on my knees beside my bed every night and slowly turned into this personal relationship with God. But it took me a long time to feel like I had that same kind of connection with God in the liturgy and in Scripture. So it wasn’t really until college that I started understanding, “Okay, liturgy is not just some rote thing we do passively.” It can have this personal element; it can have the same experience that I was getting in personal prayer. You can have that. It just took me understanding certain elements of it and just experiencing it for me to start feeling that. But what about you?

Emily Mentock: Yeah, my journey is almost like the opposite of that. I grew up learning to pray almost entirely through the prayers of the Church. Like, “Bless us Lord” before a meal, praying the Our Father; the Hail Mary, going to Mass, Vespers. Things like that were the more formal, structured prayers of the Church that we have. And so, because for me—just in my experience—I didn’t develop a personal relationship with God through that until later in life when I did have my conversion and actually desired a personal relationship with Jesus and with the Father. And even understanding what those relationships would mean and what it meant to pursue them, I had to almost kind of step away. I was very intimidated by just talking one-on-one with God and not just rely on the prayers of the Church.

So for example, if I was scared from turbulence on an airplane or something like that, even in that moment, I would just pray the Hail Mary. Like, that was my way of communicating. And now I found that because I found a personal relationship with God, my experience of things like Mass is so much deeper and richer, and I can bring those personal elements into those liturgies or other gifts from the Church; reading the Bible or reading the Catechism and praying through certain paragraphs. That personal side of things can be re-injected into even those more structured formal prayers of the Church.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, I think it’s always important to remind everyone, “What is it we’re trying to do?” If you’re a catechist or an evangelist, or if you’re a parent, you’re called to evangelize others; to introduce them to Jesus. But this isn’t just a vague idea, like people should just know Jesus and have positive sentiments towards him. The Church says the primary aim of catechesis is intimacy with Christ. And as Catholics, what God showed us is that means insertion into the mystery of Christ Himself. There’s a way to define that, and the four primary means of insertion into the mystery of Christ—which is this thing that we could never exhaust; that actually changes us—are Scripture, systematic catechesis, the community; the Church itself. And then the last one is the testimony of Christian living. So seeing someone else showing you what it means to be inserted into that mystery. And these things that we’re talking about, Scripture, the liturgy; these are wellsprings that the Holy Spirit can well up in us in this prayer. So when we’re talking about prayer with other people, we’re not just talking about, “Hey, just say these things.” And it’s great to say “It’s a relationship with Jesus,” but we have to show them the ways that they can enter into the mystery of Jesus Christ himself. And these are the primary ways.

Emily Mentock: Yeah. Exactly right. I think in our last unit, we were talking a lot about the heart and talked about how you can tell when you’re praying—whether it’s spontaneous prayer or in something like the Mass—whether or not your heart is in it. Or if you’re allowing the Spirit to work through you. Because that is the source of that relationship with Christ. One of the main paragraphs for this unit that we kind of use to anchor the thesis for the being a wellspring of prayer is paragraph 2652: “The Holy Spirit is the living water “welling up to eternal life” in the heart that prays. It is he who teaches us to accept it at its source: Christ. Indeed, in Christian life, there are several wellsprings where Christ awaits us to enable us to drink the Holy Spirit.”

And then there’s those four wellsprings that you mentioned: the word of God, the liturgy of the Church, the theological virtues, and today. So I think we’re going to dive into some of each of those for this podcast episode and explore “What does it look like to draw from this wellspring, both from personal experiences for our own lives?” But then also for how to hand those on to others. So why don’t we start maybe with the most obvious one, which is Scripture. What would your advice be for drawing on the wellspring of Scripture?

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. I think when we were first getting passionate about evangelization and catechesis, we go to the things that really moved us. And that’s great to share that Christian testimony. But again, we have to remember that the Church offers these places where others can encounter Jesus. And not just encounter Him intellectually, but encounter the Holy Spirit. And so Scripture is one of these places that even if there’s passages or places in Scripture or types of prayer with Scripture that might not resonate with us, the word of God is living and effective. It pierces between bone and marrow. So we believe this. So one of the things is just giving opportunities for people to experience these wellsprings in a prayerful way.

So one is Scripture. A lot of people will be familiar with Lectio Divina, but other ways that we can do this is—and that also connects to the liturgy—is giving people an experience. And a regular experience that they could grow over time of encountering Scripture in a prayerful way. So that when they go to the liturgy and hear the word of God proclaimed, or when they open up a Bible themselves, it’s not their first time. And it’s also not something that just seems like, “Oh, I’m just going to read some things for my intellectual knowledge.” So I don’t know if you have any other stories. I know we’ve talked about stories about Scripture in the past, but have you any stories of times where someone was teaching something—and the teaching was great—but it was something about the Scripture that stirred something in you? That’s because the Holy Spirit is waiting there to encounter us in God’s word.

Emily Mentock: My experience for Mass is that you actually almost always get something more out of the Liturgy of the Word when it’s not the only time you’re encountering those scriptures that weekend. Whether it’s reading them in advance or reflecting them again afterwards, it always makes it richer.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah, exactly. I mean, the big takeaway of this is the liturgy. Because the liturgy is where we are offered an invitation to be entered into the mystery of Christ. So even when we’re talking about Scripture, where we’re giving people an experience to kind of stretch that muscle and be open to that encounter when they do go to Mass. So the way I was trained, some of the advice that was given was “Do some of these little tiny rites outside of Mass to give people that experience and teach them.” So some examples are if there’s a priest in the room; if you’re leading OCIA or something, and there’s a significant passage you want to read, have everyone do what we do at Mass. Stand up, have the priest proclaim it, and then do the little rite at the end, like “The Gospel of the Lord.”

Or if you are reading Scripture, like if there’s a significant passage that’s going to be the main focus of that teaching, have everyone stand up and have someone proclaim it. And then say “The word of the Lord,” and everyone says, “Thanks be to God.” Like that’s not the only time they’re experiencing it, but also you’re attaching this wonderful catechesis—hopefully you’re giving—you’re attaching that experience to like, “Wow, that really moved me there. And now I’m at Mass doing the same thing.” Like this triggers in me, “Wow, this is something important happening.” So those are some things. Another thing that is helpful to keep in mind is your Bible translations. There are a few different options for Bible translations, but what’s really helpful in catechesis and evangelization is using the translation that’s used in the liturgy. Like you said, it kind of helps to hear the exact same line in catechesis and evangelization that you hear later on at Mass.

Emily Mentock: Yeah. And I’m so glad you mentioned some of those routines around the liturgy that help us enter deeper and with our hearts into it. So one thing, when I sort of realized—especially this past Lent—that we respond to the word of the Lord with thanks and praise at the end of the first and second readings, responding: “Thanks be to God.” And after the end of the Gospel reading, saying: “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ.” And I realized, “If I’m going to be prepared to respond that way and say it with my heart; say it like I mean it, then I need to be paying attention to what’s being said in those readings.” I want to know, “Okay, what am I hearing that I’m going to then be thanking God for whatever good news or message or invitation to conversion I just heard in that reading?”

Or if I’m going to hear the Gospel; the good news from the life of Jesus, I need to be prepared to listen to it so that I can then say, “Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ” in response to whatever we’ve just heard; whatever story that is. So it is sometimes those routines around hearing actual Scripture that help us. They’re not meaningless. And it’s not just a routine. It’s meant to help us enter deeper into this wellspring of what we’re hearing from the Holy Spirit through Scripture in that moment.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And in catechesis you have this opportunity where the class is going on, or maybe you’re in a small group, or maybe you’re with your kid. And then when you make that shift from we’re talking to, “Hey, why don’t we pray, and I’m going to read this passage from Scripture?” There’s like a clear mark. Well, Mass, that’s supposed to happen at the beginning and not at the end. And so we forget that when we stand up, “Oh, we’re supposed to be praying.” So when you give them that experience instead of just saying, “We’re going to talk about the Eucharist. Here’s John 6, I’m going to read it.” You can do those little things and say, “Let’s all stand up and say ‘The Gospel according to St. Luke or to St. John.’”

You can say these little things that will help trigger people the next time they’re in Mass to go, “Oh, this is a prayerful thing.” Or even these little things that we forget people have never been told. Like making the sign of the cross on your head and your lips and your heart; “May the word of God be on my mind, in my lips, and my heart.” These are things you can teach people—not just to do in a group— but do on their own before they pray. And that’s them entering into Scripture and the liturgy and learning this language of this whole story of this mystery that they’re able to enter into.

Emily Mentock: Yes. And it doesn’t just apply to Mass. So there’s other parts of the liturgy that we pray together, for example, the Liturgy of the Hours. Where those same routines and kinds of practices; even the physical body language applies. So in the Liturgy of the Hours, you stand up for the Gospel reading. In the same way that you would if you were at Mass. And this liturgical prayer and resource that the entire Church throughout the world—all consecrated men and women and lay people who choose to participate in the Liturgy of the Hours as well—are praying together as a way to draw from the richness of the Scripture and our way of life together beyond what we’re hearing at Mass that day. Or for people who don’t go to daily Mass, what they would hear just on Sundays.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. The Liturgy of the Hours is so beautiful. Because again, this is something really easy that you could work into either discipleship with someone you’re accompanying; your daily life at home. Liturgy of the Hours can be intimidating, but just starting with night prayer. It’s like a shorter one. And what you’re doing is outside of Mass—in an appropriate way that the Church has given us—you’re teaching people to go through these motions—not in a bad way—but in a way that like trains our heart, our mind, our soul to experience and be open to the liturgy. I remember the story that comes to mind of this farmer who goes to his priest and he goes “I don’t like praying or reading Scripture or doing these things because I don’t keep any of it. None of it sticks to me.I don’t remember any of it. We’re just saying all these things and I’m not remembering any of it.”

And the priest says, “Go take this basket here and put it under like this spigot of water that’s flowing, and I want you to hold it there for three hours.” And so he holds it for a long time. He comes back to the priest and he goes, “See, there’s no water stuck in this basket.” And the priest says, “Yeah, but your basket is much cleaner.” And I think about that a lot. 

It’s kind of a cheeky story, but this idea of times in my life, on a mission trip, where every night we prayed Liturgy of the Hours. Even though sometimes I was like, “I don’t know. Am I really praying this with my heart?” But then later I’d go back to my daily life without it, and I’d be like, “Man, I really miss this. There was something that was happening to me being in this routine and being part of the liturgy of the Church.” It does have an impact on us And all of those Scriptures start becoming more a part of you. So I think that’s really powerful in catechesis and evangelization to put these little things where “Every lesson might be different, but if every time we do the Liturgy of the Hours or we pray Scripture this way,” it has these compounding effects.

Emily Mentock: Yeah, that’s a great point. And I love the analogy of the basket. I think one of the things that I love most about the Liturgy of the Hours is just praying the Psalms. I think for a lot of us—people who experience Sunday Mass at a typical U.S. parish—how much are you engaging with the Psalms if it’s a cantor who’s singing it, and you say your response, but you’re not necessarily knowing which Psalm is that coming from? You might not be paying the most close attention to the words for each of the verses. But in the Liturgy of the Hours, you’re praying with more heart just and more attention to the Psalms. 

And I found that the people I know who are committed to praying the Liturgy of the Hours—whether because they live in community or they have a religious community, or they’re consecrated—their familiarity with who God is through the Psalms is so much deeper. And that has come for them through praying the Liturgy of the Hours. So I think it’s definitely worth incorporating into your routine, even if it’s just seasonally; maybe it’s something you do for Lent this year with your classroom or just at home.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And I think that the big takeaway from this section that we’re talking about is related to one of our favorite Real + True videos on call-and-response. I forget the exact title of it. But that’s one of those things. For people who maybe are converts from Protestant or other Christian communities they might not be as familiar with this. But this is an ancient thing. This comes from the Old Testament, and it’s important—not just from a human psychology standpoint—but it’s important because the Church prays in this way; in this call-and- response. So by giving people an experience of it outside of the liturgy, you’re preparing them to understand how to pray with their heart in that call-and-response. So you’re having in Liturgy of the Hours—and in some of these other ways—this call-and-response. And inviting them to not just do it from memorization, but to do it with their heart.

Emily Mentock: And maybe that’s a good transition into another one that you mentioned. I hadn’t heard this term before: aspiration prayers, which can be used as call-and-response prayers. I’m familiar with these prayers, but I didn’t know that they were called this. Can you explain them?

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah, this section in particular, there’s a list of these in the Institute on the Catechism’s Handbook on Evangelizing Catechesis. A lot of them will sound familiar. And the passage here; a quote from this handbook says: “St. Paul counsels Christians to rejoice always and pray without ceasing. To this end, it’s good for the faithful to have certain short and simple prayers—sometimes referred to as aspirations; drawn from Scripture and the liturgy—that can be prayed in a moment or meditated upon at length.” I remember this famous story—I’m not sure if this is true or legend—but there is this moment that JPII—his chauffeur or something; someone who was driving him—slammed a finger. He got his finger caught in a door and it got slammed, and he immediately just said, “Thank you Lord, for loving me this way.”

And that’s a crazy story, if that’s true. But also, how do we pray without ceasing? Well, what comes out of us in different moments where there’s difficulty? I remember I had a boxing coach who’s this older guy, and he ducked under a rope and he just went, “Oh, Jesus, help me.” And it really struck me because it wasn’t a Christian boxing gym or anything. But it was like, “Man, that’s on his mind.” And so you can teach people these little things. 

Imagine a four-week lesson where you took just one of these; you’re talking about the Eucharist and the Sacred Heart, and you teach them “Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, I trust in you.” You can pray it as a call-and-response or at the end of prayers, you could do it at the beginning. The person leading prayer says, “Most Sacred Heart of Jesus,” then everyone says, “I trust in you.” 

Or think about how we often pray for intentions. Does anyone have intentions? “Let’s pray together, say your intentions out loud, and then we’re going to add one of these aspirations maybe for the season of Advent. And we’re going to focus on this one being one that we’re praying a lot.” 

And now you’re really building up—we talked about this—compounding experience of the Holy Spirit. You’re going to these wellsprings. So there’s a list of them. You can find these online. Some of them you’re familiar with. We talked about this last podcast, where the priest at the end of confession said—I forget which one it was.

Emily Mentock: Yeah. “Give thanks to the Lord for He is good.” And then the response, “His mercy endures forever.”

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah.

Emily Mentock: And I talked about how that phrase stuck with me and it’s penetrated so many other areas of my life now, where my brain just goes to that because it touched my heart. And now it’s part of the way I just interact with the world spiritually.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And there’s natural versions of these. Like “Ce la vie.” We have these little sayings like, “Ah, that’s life” or whatever. And this is bringing Christ into those things so it’s part of our life. So some of them “God, come to my assistance. Lord, make haste to help me.” “Come, Holy Spirit” is a great one. And just be teaching people. 

And the other thing, remember, one of the primary means of insertion into the mystery of Christ is testimony of Christian living. Try to work on one of these being part of your daily life. Try to practice this yourself. If someone sees a catechist in between something, just go “Alright. Come Holy Spirit.” Or saying some of these aspirational prayers in random moments. That’s really powerful; be a witness of integrating these into our lives.

Emily Mentock: And I think it’s also important to know that most of these are coming from Scripture or the liturgy.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah.

Emily Mentock: So there are many things that you can just say in your daily life that you come up with. And that’s totally fine. That’s a good way to pray without ceasing in your life. But there are certain prayers that come from the Church through Scripture and the liturgy that the Church is united in prayer. It’s sort of like a common language of all of us praying these things together. And I think that is so beautiful.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. So then if you teach people and they’re experiencing “Man, at the end of every lesson or meeting or whatever, it’s, “Lord, I’m not worthy that you should enter under my roof.”  And everyone says, ‘But only say the word, and my soul shall be healed.’” If you have a semester as a youth minister doing that, the next time that someone goes to Mass, that really piques everyone’s interest all of a sudden. They’re like, “Oh, wait. I have so many memories with this line.” And it becomes less memorized and more like we’re praying with our whole self.

Emily Mentock: I have an example that’s going to lead us into our next section, which is liturgical and structured prayers. Which includes things that you hear at Mass, like the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei, and the Creed. So for me, actually from working on this project, every time we’re praying the Creed—which I’ve shared before on the podcast how since working on this project and going through the first pillar of the Catechism—my experience of praying the Creed at Mass has been totally transformed. Where I have a deeper understanding of what it is I’m saying I believe in. It’s not just reciting lines with the congregation, but I actually feel like I’m saying “This is what I believe in.” And I feel at most Masses now, it is coming from my heart. But one line in particular that always stands out to me is that “The Holy Spirit, Lord, and giver of life.”

Because I remember the graphic we made for that unit that was just so beautiful; with the dove, with the olive branch and the reds and the blues. And it was just so stunning. And shoutout to Becky, our graphic designer who made that. And since then—and this was years ago now—every time praying in the Creed, we get to that line and I just think of that graphic. And I think of everything we learned about the Holy Spirit working on that unit. And it moves me every time.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah.

Emily Mentock: This is not even being dramatic. Maybe I am emotional at Mass. I love the Mass.

Edmund Mitchell: No, that’s great.

Emily Mentock: It’s my favorite experience of God. But praying that prayer connects me to what I know I’m saying I believe in. And having studied the Catechism and working on scripts to share it with others, that line just means so much to me, even though it’s through a recited prayer like the Creed at Mass.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And I think when we’re first starting out in evangelization or catechesis, we sometimes are tempted to focus so much on, “I just want them to know this.” But there’s more to catechesis than just knowing; it’s insertion into the mystery. And Mass can seem dry to someone uninitiated; to someone who doesn’t know these things. But what your experience shows is that you found a way—whether you intended to or not—to engage more of yourself in this line. And that’s really what’s so beautiful about this. 

And by doing these things, we’re allowing people to engage more in these parts of the Mass and have more of themselves or more engaged and connected to the things that they’re saying. So many of these. Taking some of these things from different liturgical seasons. So for instance, the O Antiphons, Stations of the Cross; there are so many beautiful prayers of the Church. The Sanctus; different parts of the Mass. The Salve Regina is beautiful; the Latin of “Hail, Holy Queen,” the Agnus Dei. These are the little things that you can bring into catechesis, discipleship, evangelization, that then just open up the liturgy for someone. And that’s amazing to do.

Emily Mentock: And I think something I would encourage catechists to keep in mind is don’t underestimate the impact that it can have to put meaning behind those little words.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah.

Emily Mentock: Whether it’s someone who’s learning it for the first time through OCIA, or for a lifelong Catholic who maybe learned how to do these things, especially if they were taught as a small child—their parents wanted them to pray along and recite things in Mass, or they learned from just hearing the adults around them—but maybe need to reconnect with the meaning behind what they’re saying. And for me, it’s this endless invitation to go deeper. Like we were doing the unit on the Eucharist, and we talked about the lines “Holy, Holy, Holy” and how that’s been prayed by the angels and saints.

Emily Mentock: And when we say that at Mass, now it’s what I think of. I think of all the angels who are praying that when we say “Holy, Holy, Holy.” Or we just in the last podcast we’re talking about “Through Him, with Him and in Him.” And now since then, every Mass I hear those words, I’m like, “Oh, this is what we mean. We’re praying through Jesus to our Father.”  And I think sometimes unlocking the parts of Mass that might seem meaningless if you don’t understand the meaning behind them can really make the whole experience deeper. And for me, has helped me dive deeper into being prepared to encounter Jesus in the Eucharist there.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And bleeds over really well into our next section here. God is giving us this whole world of the liturgy; the universe of the Church that we’re welcomed into; to be a part of; to be a part of this whole huge story with visual elements and things that we touch and things we say back and forth. Exactly. 

And so the Church’s feast days and the liturgy; the liturgical cycle of the year is another example of this thing that we can help people get swept up into. By not just helping them understand it intellectually, but giving them an experience of it that really connects with their heart—and not just their mind—and with their body and their actions and their prayer. 

So the feast days; holy days, these can be used in evangelization catechesis more than just saying, “Hey, what are you giving up for Lent?” If you’re a teacher, think about how you set up your room, the passage of the liturgical cycle. You can see if you walk into a church every Sunday throughout a ear. Do people see that reflected in the physical space as a youth minister; the place that you meet?

Emily Mentock: Or changing up the prayers, like we talked about. I know for me—in the Catholic grade school that I went to— during Lent, our school prayer, instead of—I don’t even remember what it was most of the time—but during Lent we would always begin the day singing prayerfully “Jesus Remember Me, When You Come Into Your Kingdom” as one of those recited lines and aspiration prayer; where it comes from Scripture. And it comes from the Good Thief. 

And I remember Lent from grade school—even as a very small child—because of that prayer routine set apart from the rest of the year. So I think that something that we can do in our classrooms, at homes, and other parts of parish and community life, to draw attention to that liturgical calendar because we’re human and we like to have a lived experience. And there’s so many ways to do that even beyond the Mass and what we experience there.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And I want to challenge catechists, evangelists; even if you’re doing just one-on-one discipleship. I want to really challenge you—because this was hard for me too—but it’s so important for people to see in you a person who is caught up in the drama of the liturgical year and who’s aware of it. 

And you see every Church document the Pope signs it, and then it’s something about where in the year; it’s like the feast of the Chair of St. Peter, or the second week of Advent, or whatever. They’re caught up in the drama and the story and the universe of the liturgical year of the Church.

And so I really want to challenge people. And it’s powerful. Teachers I’ve had that were caught up in and aware of the liturgical season at all times, it was really attractive. It was like, “Man, this is an exciting story and cycle that they’re a part of. And I want that to be reflected in my own life too.”

Emily Mentock: I love that. Okay, let’s transition into—I think it is one of the more challenging ones to understand—but the wellspring of today. How do we encounter what the Holy Spirit is working through today as part of our prayer?

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. So this one can be hard. I mean, this one became really clear to me through one of the spiritual classics; one of these books. It was written by an anonymous monk, Brother Lawrence. And he says in the book that he was the dumbest of all the monks, and he was the least intelligent of all of these things. And he was really bad at prayer. 

And so he just started this practice of trying as much as possible throughout the day to be aware that God is present to Him—like through the nature of his Baptism—and just be aware that God is thinking of Him. And by just trying this one minute a day; two minutes, it turned into this thing that really transformed his life. He started realizing this habit of being aware of God’s presence and aware that God is thinking of Him and wanting to communicate with Him. It really changed him.

There’s a paragraph from the Catechism; 2659—I’m going to jump down. It says: “Jesus’ teaching about praying to our Father is in the same vein as his teaching about providence.” Meaning God’s divine providence. “Time is in the Father’s hands; it is in the present that we encounter him, not yesterday nor tomorrow, but today.” And there’s this passage from Psalms where it says, “If today you hear God’s voice, harden not your hearts!” So God is always speaking to us today in our present moment. 

So teaching people to be aware that praying at all times doesn’t mean that we have to be constantly reciting the rosary. While that’s helpful, praying at all times is also being aware that God wants to speak to us in our everyday moment; in the little things that seem trivial. God is there wanting to have a conversation with us.

Emily Mentock: Yeah. And I think speaking that out loud as a part of recognizing that. Like we talked in previous episodes and again today about incorporating that liturgical language or scriptural language into your everyday life because those words have meaning and connect us to how the Holy Spirit has inspired people throughout the times of the Church and before, and God’s people, and today. 

But also there’s quieter ways to do that, like keeping a prayer journal. Or at the end of the day, taking a little bit of time to reflect “Where did God meet you today?” Or if you feel like your heart is being touched by God in a particular moment, don’t be afraid to just pause and engage with that moment; kind of the practice of the presence that you were just talking about. So I think that those are things that we can learn to do—and as catechists—we should put effort into making sure we’re doing in our own lives, so that then we can better model it and pass it down to those we are catechizing.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. I think that’s really great. It leads into the theological virtues. And I remember I had a friend once say “What is God teaching you today in prayer?” And I was like, “Oh, I haven’t gone to pray yet.” I said, “Well, I haven’t really prayed yet.” And one of these friends—her name is Katie—she said, “Well, yeah. I mean, it’s important for you to pray at certain times, but also throughout your day should be prayer.”

And God might be trying to teach you something right now in this moment, or a conversation you had earlier. And that leads into this idea of the theological virtues that really guide us throughout our daily life. The theological virtues are the gifts that God gives us to live this relationship of love. So faith, hope, and love are these things that we can turn to to experience deeper prayer with God.

Emily Mentock: Because I think what God is teaching you in your life, it doesn’t need to be overcomplicated. It doesn’t need to be an exact answer to that thing that you’re encountering in that moment. It can just be a reminder or a call to the gift of faith or hope or love. 

I think it was St. Augustine who said, “At the end of the day, all catechesis” — and maybe even all theology—”is just faith, hope or love.” Everything else is on top of that, but everything needs to be connected to that. 

And so I’m going to read the paragraph 2658 that kind of shows how these things are connected as a foundation. That “Hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Prayer, formed by the liturgical life, draws everything into the love by which we are loved in Christ and which enables us to respond to him by loving as he has loved us. Love is the source of prayer; whoever draws from it reaches the summit of prayer.” 

So finding ways to connect throughout your day with God’s love is how you’re going to find the source of responding to Him in prayer. That is the source of the relationship.

Edmund Mitchell: Yeah. And this connects back to helping people understand that prayer is not just intellectual; it’s not just a to-do that you check off for good behavior. But it’s a prayer of the heart. Prayer is a journey of the heart. It’s an interior life. And so reminding people of faith, hope, and love—these virtues—really helps redirect people towards that ultimate goal.

Emily Mentock: Great. So how would you recap those lessons, Edmund?

Edmund Mitchell: Whoa. So here’s what came to mind when we were prepping for this podcast. Ultimately, in evangelization; in catechesis, there’s this concept of not just giving someone a fish, but teaching people how to fish. And we can craft these really brilliant experiences of prayer, maybe in youth ministry or young adult ministry; these wonderful moments. And we can give amazing talks and we can try to schedule an encounter with Jesus. But if we’re not teaching people to go to places that the Church has given us to encounter Jesus, well then we’re just giving people fish. And we’re just telling them that this is the only place they can come to have that experience of Jesus.

And so all these different tips and things we’ve said are really ways that as catechists and evangelists we’re trying to teach people to fish themselves. And the Catechism paragraph at the beginning really summarizes this by this analogy of these are wellsprings where Jesus is waiting. So teach people about these wellsprings and help them have the tools or the experience or the memories to go to them themselves and encounter Jesus.

Emily Mentock: And I think also for you as a catechist, don’t be afraid to go to those wellsprings yourself and to go back to the source. Edmund and I were talking before the podcast recording started about how we’re both a bit of nerds. We love a Church document; we love being inspired by those things or diving into a document like the Handbook on Catechetical Accompaniment or the Directory for Catechesis. But in your vocation— “small v”—vocation and calling to be a catechist, those are great resources for you. And are made for you. And don’t be afraid to go and turn to those documents for your inspiration as you’re navigating those things. And see where Jesus might meet you as a catechist there, so that you can help those that you’re teaching find Him and connect with Him as well.

Emily Mentock: Thank you so much for your time today for joining us on The Real + True podcast. We’re on a mission to unlock the beauty and truth of the Catechism for the modern world and help people encounter its pulsating heart: Jesus Christ. You can find this podcast and any others like it on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts; wherever you get your podcast. And you can find all the videos that we’ve created. We are almost completely finished with the Catechism; free videos to dive into the Catechism—especially for young people—at realtrue.org. Thanks so much for joining us today.