Video Transcript

Edmund:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Real and True Podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Edmund Mitchell. And today we have a fantastic episode with Jennifer Baugh. We’re gonna be talking about young adults. We’re gonna be talking about young Catholic professionals and in particular this ministry, young Catholic professionals that Jennifer started. Jennifer is the founder of, like I said, young Catholic professionals. It started in 2010, and young Catholic professionals offers young adults in their twenties and thirties a way to go deeper in their faith life and work. They seek to inspire modern day saints through local and national events and networking. Maybe you’ve heard of some of these networking events. And since 2010, young Catholic Professionals has helped thousands of young Catholic professionals find community and spiritual growth through a few different ways that they operate. So networking events, one-on-one, mentorship, retreats, and small groups. So I’m really excited today to be talking about evangelization, catechesis young Catholic professionals. So thanks for being here, Jennifer. Thanks

Jennifer:

So much for having me.

Edmund:

So could you take us back to how this all started? Like what, what is the journey, a little bit of maybe what’s going on in your life and your spiritual life that, that motivated you to start this organization and ministry?

Jennifer:

Yes, and now it’s, you know, going back 13 years <laugh>. Wow. So it’s, it’s almost you know, it’s, it’s good to go back and reflect, but basically, you know, I had just graduated from business school. I went to Texas a and m for grad school, and had about eight months off in between this M B A and starting this consulting job in Dallas, Texas. And, you know, really, I had, I had grown up, you know, Catholic but my faith was in introduced later really in high school because of, you know, sort of what my mom was going through with her faith journey. And so, you know, my formation was, was not really very solid, but I, I did consider myself Catholic. So it was really during this time off in between the M B A and starting this consulting job where I had eight months, who gets eight months to <laugh> to just really be still.

Jennifer:

And it was during that time that I I had what I call a little bit of a quarter life crisis where I was really searching for meaning for, for who I was what was my purpose in life. And you know, God can work miracles when we simply ask him to, to help us. And so it began with a humble plea, dear Lord, you know, really teach me who you are and, and what it means to be Catholic. And that unfolded into this beautiful journey where, you know, I really felt his mercy and his presence in my life and decided in a, in a particular moment, although this was over a span of months, there was a moment where I said, I wanna be an authentic Catholic. I wanna know what that means, and I, I wanna embrace this as the most important thing in my life.

Jennifer:

And so, you know, it was like opening a treasure chest finding this, this richness. And I couldn’t believe that I had gone my whole life without really knowing what is at our disposal as Catholics. It was, it was just tremendously exciting. And then from there, you know, when you’re availing yourselves with yourself of the sacraments, learning about the saints all these things, it’s just like you’re filled up and you can’t help but share it <laugh>. And so I was meeting young people in Dallas. I mean, no matter where I was going to, you know, this, the supermarket or going to, you know, the local bar in restaurant, I’d be sharing with people about what I’m learning about my faith and the real the real promise that we have to live a life that’s, that’s, that’s meaningful. And I was surprised that, that people were following you know, my train of thought and, and interested. And so long story short I, I saw that there could be an opportunity for young people who are searching and pretty out of character started a ministry,

Edmund:

<Laugh> <laugh>. So I’ll, I’ll that, that’s a amazing story. I love that, how God kind of just like calls us, especially from a, a felt need. And I, I’m sure this might be your experience, but for a lot of people in the, in, when they experience parishes, there’s stuff for really young kids. There’s stuff for maybe high school college age, and then there’s adult stuff. And often the experience is like college age, you know, young adult ministry looks one way. And adult ministry oftentimes is people that are already established in their work and have been living for a while, you know, out in the world and are married and possibly have kids. And there seems like this gap for people who are fresh out of college, but are just starting to transition into and get adapted to living in a, you know, living on their own, being in a secular job, trying to find friends and community. How do I live my life? And so I, I wonder why you think that is, and then also if you could speak a little more about that gap or that need for this particular type of ministry, for the stage of life for people completely.

Jennifer:

And I, I think that’s, that’s how this was all inspired because I was going through it myself, you know, asking a lot of deep questions. Why had I just dated a guy who was very anti-Catholic? What does it mean to live your faith in the world in a very secular setting? You know, how do I navigate these decisions of, of how I vote, you know, where I choose to live, how I solidify who I am. And a lot of young Catholics have these questions. If you think about it. They probably have these questions, most of these burning questions in their twenties and thirties, like you said, it’s a, it’s a transition moment. And unfortunately in our church we, we have really haven’t responded to that, that great need that, that kind of, that that transition as, as we’re saying. I, I think it’s because it’s challenging.

Jennifer:

You know, it’s a lot of, a lot of people are going through a lot of different things. It’s not like it’s one thing. There’s dating, there’s work, there’s living, there’s finances. So I think there’s a lot of complexity to it. And I think the problem is, is that we’ve sort of tried to, to respond to the young adult need, you know, with what we think young people are looking for, rather than having it really just be somewhat organic. And I think that that’s, that’s what has really resonated with this ministry is it is just truly young Catholic workers who are building up community for young Catholic workers. It’s a very authentic experience, and we try to make it really relatable so that, you know, we have speakers who talk about real life issues when you’re in work, and this is what happens, you know?

Jennifer:

And I think just making it totally practical and at the same time really not making it too watered down in terms of the faith. We do really try to make it inviting for people at every stage of the faith journey, because we do have total fallen away Catholics. You know, we have every type of person you could think of. But, you know, I think what we’ve found is that people are looking for depth and meaning, and oftentimes what they get is this sort of half-hearted message. And, and that’s not really what young people want right now.

Edmund:

Yeah, it’s interesting many people who work in the church are probably familiar with the pew research studies that have been saying for a few years now, that the fastest growing group of religious affiliation is just the nuns, N o N E S. And that, you know, church affiliation across the board, all denominations religion religiousness is, is on the decline and religious religiosity is on the decline. So I wonder, I wonder what you make of that from your unique perspective, why it is that people, it seems like kind of drift away and what are the particular, you know, spiritual needs of someone who’s in their first three years of a career post-college and maybe was in a really tight maybe active in a ministry of some type at their church, and then suddenly find themselves, you know, kind of in these first three years. What, what’s kind of your take on that from your perspective of what you’re seeing? Oh,

Jennifer:

It, it’s, it’s happening. And, you know, I have a, a perfect real life example. Casey, our, our chapter president in Philadelphia has shared her story where she was very active in her, in her faith in college because it’s easy, it’s user friendly. When you have your friends around you, you have your Newman Center right there, everything is at your disposal. And then she found, when she transitioned into her professional life, she, she works as a consultant at Ernst and Young. She said there was this tremendous temptation and pull to join this sort of secular or, or sort of non, non-religious way of being, because she, again, it’s who you’re surrounded with. She’s, she was surrounded by people who were not practicing their faith prioritizing other things. And I think it’s, even though she was someone who knew the difference, it’s so easy to be pulled away.

Jennifer:

And it’s, it’s, it’s no fault of her own. I think it’s just that the, the culture right now is very sort of loud in terms of every message we get from every angle really is counter to faith. And then also I think there’s this, this trap that we don’t even realize we’re falling into of secularism just because of the way of life, right? You know, so plugged into our phones you know, all these other things. And so it’s easy, I think, to fall away, which is why our church and why all of us who are, are faithful and really believe we have to recognize those forces that are working against us and work extra hard, even harder than we would’ve thought we would’ve had to because of what’s happening around us.

Edmund:

Yeah, it, it’s, it’s also interesting, the church oftentimes will present something, you know, they want people to show up or they want to minister to a particular group, and they’ll just present something that a church leader might be tempted to present something that they’re excited about. So it’s like, come to this Bible study where, where we’ll learn about, you know, Saint Saint you know, this saint’s vision of the apocalypse from the book of Revelations. And meanwhile, people who are kind of disengaged a little bit from, from the church are like, I’m just trying to find other Catholics, and I don’t know how to navigate not being able to talk about religion at work. You know, it’s like, I, I don’t even know that I care to find these things. So that’s why I love this idea of the networking events, because it seems like from the outside that there’s a felt need that someone’s gonna see this and go, yeah, I wanna show up to this. And it seems like it’s effective at connecting other Catholics. So I wonder for a parish leader who looks at that, you know, what can, what can they learn from the effectiveness of the networking events? And what are you seeing as the kind of fruit of hosting, in particular, a networking event? You know, because some people might not even think, wow, why would we host a networking event that seems so far from teaching them the faith, we gotta just teach ’em the truth.

Jennifer:

Yes. Well, I mean, I think, again, it’s responding to the real needs that exist. And, and one of the needs that exists in the world today is just helping people meet each other, fostering community. Networking is seen as sort of this like, dirty word, but it actually is a wonderful thing where you’re helping someone make a connection. And I mean, we’ve just seen in so many cases where there are young people who won’t go to a Bible study. They, they actually maybe are uncomfortable even going into the church, but the concept of some sort of networking event is more user-friendly for them. And so it doesn’t mean, again, that we have to completely detach ourself from the faith. I think we can bring those elements into the modern square, which is what St. John Paul II has urged us to do all these years.

Jennifer:

But, you know, I think creating an environment that is, you know, allows them to sort of step back into the faith in a way that’s comfortable, but then really making sure you make the connection to the next step. And so, you know, I think oftentimes in, in the church in ministries, we either go to one extreme or the other where they’re, these events are like, just social or they’re just super theological. And I think what we’re trying to do with Y C P is, is really have a bridge, and we do it through the people. So it’s, it’s gotta be, you know, the people that that you’re meeting have to be authentic, attractive witnesses to the faith. And, and I mean, that’s what we’re seeing. Our chapter leaders are fantastic people that, that you would want to be friends with, that you would wanna spend time with. They’re real, they have real jobs. They’re not pretending that they’re, you know, perfect or have all the answers, but they’re real. And to be able to connect with someone and just say, look, here I am, I I I’m not really sure if I’m on the right path. And, but, you know, I, I, I wanna go deeper and to, to be able to connect with someone who could be a friend in that regard, I, I think that’s the best way to pull people back.

Edmund:

Yeah, man, you hit the nail right on that. I’m glad you said this. ’cause This is my same experience working in ministry and observing other churches trying to do ministry is exactly that, the two extremes. It’s either we’re gonna do all social events and we’re never gonna talk about the faith, or we’re gonna, we’re gonna make them read every book of the Bible. And you, you alluded to some of the ways that you navigate that, but how, how could parish leaders, you know, kind of navigate that balance? Like, what is it that stops a networking event from just being maybe too superficial? I mean, in particular, we, we had, as an example, we had these connect groups where it’s like, Hey, come to this event and you’ll just connect with other people at the parish. So if you’re new to our parish, instead of coming and learning all the ways you can volunteer and everything that we want to tell you about our parish, it’s like, come to this connect group or connect event where you’re gonna connect with other people who are new and people who have been here a long time and want to journey with you.

Edmund:

But one of the biggest challenges was how do we make sure that these groups don’t stay superficial and just friendly? How do we invite them to go deeper?

Jennifer:

Yes. And I, I mean, I think that’s how we’ve designed our programming with Y C P. So I mean, really it’s, it’s meant to be so that people can enter where they’re comfortable, kind of be inspired to go, to go deeper. And so, you know, the, the networking event really is the first step. And then there’s always an invitation for that, that following step, which is an executive speaker series, again, which is a little bit of a baby step where you have a priest at the speaker series who leads in a reflection from the catechism, but you also have wine and, you know, appetizers and 200 young Catholics gathered together for social time. Then you have an executive speaker who makes it extremely practical about faith lived. So, you know, I think starting with the networking event and then really inviting them to that next step, and then there’s an a step where you can go even deeper.

Jennifer:

But even at the networking events, I mean, our chapters, you know, it won’t, wouldn’t be strange to have a sta a statue of St. Joseph there, you know, to maybe even offer prayer cards. So it’s not like we’re hiding away from our faith at these sort of public events, you know, in, in public locations. It’s just, it’s more accessible to, for, for a lot of these people, it’s, it’s sort of more user-friendly, more fun but again, saying, look, these are young Catholics that are here. There’s a room full of people here, and we’re all gonna go to the speaker series, you know, you should come too. And I think so I, I, I would sort of suggest to parishes is, you know, just be careful that in these moments that you’re creating, where you’re meeting people where they are, which is the phrase that everyone uses, which is relevant just be careful that you’re not, you know, so much hiding away from your faith that to make that next step is, is too, too abrupt, right? We have to, we have to always be proud of being Catholic. It’s just creating an environment where people can take the next step in a way that’s user-friendly.

Edmund:

Yeah. What one of the big complaints often <laugh> is, and, and this is across all ministries at different age groups, is that people are busy. And how do we, how do we get people to make this a priority? Or how do we even yeah. How do we attract people or, or help people make this decision to prioritize some type of event like this? And, and one of the things I’ve really appreciated about the, you know, young Catholic professionals is that even just when you said like executive speaker series or networking event, like, it, it has a very different, it sounds like it’s intentional that you guys are making this very different appearance or very different like presentation of what this event is gonna be, that it’s gonna be worth your time. And so I, I wonder how you navigate that because, you know, especially right out of college, like you’re busy, you know, you maybe you don’t have time for these types of things. How do you navigate that challenge in particular?

Jennifer:

Yeah, you’re totally right. And I mean, we have designed our programming, you know, to, to address that. You know, I remember when I was coming alive in my faith, going to some of these theology on tabs, and you see these flyers on the tables, and they’re all disorganized, and the people running the event don’t really know what time it is. And, you know, the speakers running late. And, you know I, I think we really wanted to have that sense of, of, of polish and professionalism in terms of the way we’re organizing events for that exact reason, to respect people’s time. They’re busy and we wanna make the time that they have with us as fruitful as possible. So that’s, that’s really why we’ve, we’ve designed it that way. It’s not because we’re trying to, you know, come across as being so, you know, a cut above or anything like that, but it’s really because we want the message to be the most important thing that people remember.

Jennifer:

Not the fact that, you know, it was too, too hard to get a drink or something like that. I mean, just really, really trying to make it so that it’s an experience that is worth, worth their time. And like you said as well, even just the, the, the speakers that we choose, you know, sort of the marketing to make it attractive to be a good use of their time because young people are willing to invest time in things that they think will help them either grow you know, solidify sort of who they are, a sense of worth. So build community, build that identity, or give them clarity, give themselves clarity about their professional path, and sort of a sense of certainty that they are doing what they’re supposed to be doing. They are willing to invest in the time. So we just have to make sure that we can articulate that this is time well spent.

Edmund:

Yeah. You guys al also offer this mentorship, the one-on-one mentorship. What, what have you seen there in terms of fruit and, you know, what can people learn about mentorship? Because that, that’s also something that not a lot of parish ministries might be implementing or see the value in. And I wonder, you know, what made you choose to include that in, in some of the things that you’re doing, and, and why, why is that effective?

Jennifer:

Yes. I mean, I think, like I was saying in my own journey, I mean, there were just so many questions that I had and really, really searching, soul searching. And again, that’s an experience for 20 year old, you know, people in their twenties and thirties. And so how nice is it to be able to go to someone who is Catholic, who has experience in the world, and who has interest in, in my life, and who cares for me? I mean, sure, we can all go to our parents sure we can, you know, go to our priest or, or, or maybe even someone in our office. But to have someone who, who is Catholic and who does have professional expertise to share, and mostly who someone who caress and wants to be encouraging. I think it’s, it’s just really rewarding and something our church should, should do more of.

Jennifer:

What we’ve seen is that the executives and, and Catholic leaders who are part of this and offering their time, they find it so enriching, almost more as rewarding as the young people who are receiving the mentorship because there’s something to life about sharing, you know, it’s, it’s like that’s how we’re God, God, you know, created us in a family. The Holy Family was the first family. It was a family of sharing. And, and that’s how we’re called and created to be, is to share our lives with others. And so, you know, it’s been so fruitful. I mean, just so many stories of ca Catholic executives getting involved, sharing key practical help, but also just support and then our members just feeling that tremendous sense of you know, belonging that they’re not alone and that they have people they can go to for help.

Edmund:

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, and I’m sure a lot of the people that are showing up at these events for the first time, you know, we’re transitioning more and more away from millennials into Gen Z. Are you seeing, what, what, what are you kind of seeing as similarities, differences between those two generations? Like, what are you, what are you seeing as the unique challenges, the differences, things like that? Are, is that, is that true? Are you seeing Well, I guess it is. It’s just true that yes, younger and younger, yeah. I’m getting older, so it’s more and more Gen Z. So it’s very different than you know, when millennials first went into the workforce and left, left college and home,

Jennifer:

Yeah, we’re seeing a lot of differences. For example, many, many people have never set foot in a traditional office setting. They’ve spent their entire career so far remote. And so there’s unique challenges there from, you know, feeling like they want to build community with their coworkers, but feeling a little bit of a sense of isolation, also not getting that sort of intangible encouragement or professional development that used to happen. I think it just in the course of work and, and interacting with people because you are remote. So I think that there’s challenges there. I also think that some of the younger people involved with Y C P do really want help, but sort of almost are more hesitant to ask for it. And I, I, I don’t know exactly why that is. I think they’re comfortable when it’s sort of a, an easy online way that they can ask for help. So they, they don’t mind sort of asking questions on a, on a podcast or sort of via, via a text message or an email.

Edmund:

Yeah, Googling all your symptoms on WebMD, right? Yeah. It’s like a generation that grew up trying to figure out their health problems on their own.

Jennifer:

Exactly. so I think we’re, we’re really trying to help them with that first step, which is actually how to ask for help and how to do that. You know, putting yourself in situations that are maybe uncomfortable or unnatural but actually becoming comfortable, being uncomfortable <laugh>. It’s a, it’s a real skill. And I think that’s also something that as Catholics, we have to equip young Catholics with, is the ability to, to not be super comfortable, but still go forward with it anyway. That’s how we’re gonna evangelize. It’s how we’re gonna grow our Catholic faith. It’s how we’re gonna transform the culture. It’s not always comfortable to evangelize. It’s not always comfortable to be a witness. But at the same time, we still have to do it <laugh>. And so I think that’s what we’re really trying to help our, our younger participants with is, is, is really stepping out because they have so many fantastic skills, talents, and also they tend to be, I think, more reflective in many ways. You know, seeing how the culture is now sort of really almost arriving sooner that they wanna live their life differently than what the world is encouraging. So in a sense, they’re, they’re more mature in some ways but it’s, it’s just helping them connect their feelings, their aspirations with how they can practically live their life.

Edmund:

So the, the mission of Real and True is to unlock the catechism for, for, for young adults. And it’s, it comes from this thing that we were seeing that the church had been struggling, has been struggling with, which is a lot of times the faith is just presented as this intellectual idea or, or, you know, just another subject in class, or Jesus is kind of presented almost like a Wikipedia article. Here’s some facts you need to know about him, and instead of, you know, here’s this person and the catechism being this great love story and this romance that we’re invited into. And it’s not just intellectual knowledge that we’re supposed to, that we have to memorize, but it’s actually a, a personal invitation. And I, I wonder what your experience has been with Gen Z and, and millennials and people in this particular age group when it comes to church teachings and how to help people who really struggle with church teaching or you know, they might come to these events and and be hesitant to some of the teachings of the church and how to Yeah, just how to navigate that, I guess and, and what you might have seen.

Jennifer:

Yes. And I think you’re exactly right that it’s, it’s all in the way it’s presented, I think. And, you know, ’cause I mean, any of us who have read the Catechism and, and, you know, embraced it, we know that it’s the most life-giving thing in the world. I mean, for me, that was what set me on fire, was actually the catechism and seeing that, you know, God has a tremendous plan for my life, <laugh> you know, so, you know, I think it’s the way it’s presented. And so again, we try to present it in a way that is compelling. You know, I think a lot of times we’ve talked about this already, you and I, but it’s either too watered down so that it’s the same message over and over. It’s the same parts of the catechism over and over, and it’s sort of this not, not presenting it in its fullness, or it’s, again, too intellectual and too academic.

Jennifer:

And so I think really trying to find that middle ground where we’re not just offering, you know, just, just the surface we’re, we’re maybe going a little bit deeper, but we’re also helping them connect it to their life. And so what we’ve done, you know, even for example, for our conferences is we try to have it always be centered on a, a saint, maybe a doctor of the church, but a powerful saint and have some of their teachings kind of be the theme of the conference. And so we’ve, we’ve really, you know, dissected those teachings from the faith perspective, but also how do you practically live out these teachings? So, for example, St. Alfonso, Lauri has this amazing little book Uniformity with God’s Will 30 pages, all about sort of not just surrendering to God’s will in our life, but actually embracing it and loving it.

Jennifer:

And it’s such a powerful little booklet. And so we were able to really talk about what does that mean, thy will be done for me, and, and how can I, you know, embrace that next week when I go back into the office. And so I think just really, really making our faith, you know, showing our faith as it is, which is, is beautiful and, and giving people the chance to learn about it and and embrace it for their, for their life. So we try to do that as well in our speaker series, you know, the, the, the priest is supposed to do reflections on the catechism and, and bring them to life, make them practical. So I mean, it’s, it’s a huge part of what we’re trying to do, but again, doing it in a way that’s attractive.

Edmund:

Yeah, that’s such a good point. There’s so often these church teachings are just presented and then, you know, people just go, okay, great. What do, what am I supposed to do about that? You know, Jesus descended to hell. What am I supposed to do about that? How does that impact my life at Cargill? Working <laugh> as a project manager and, and even St. Peter at Pentecost, he gives this whole huge, beautiful sermon to all of these people. And then even, even those people, it says in scripture, they, they were cut to the heart, and then they go, so what must we do <laugh>? You know, and it’s so important to keep that in mind. So I’m glad you made that point. We have a lot of parish leaders, catechists volunteers, you know, full-time ministry workers who listen to this podcast. What do you wish that they that more parish leaders knew knew or, or did, you know, going off of the theme, like what do you really wish, what’s on your heart that you really wish more parish leaders knew or were doing? Well,

Jennifer:

You know, I think that unfortunately there is this, this idea that the only way to reach young Catholics is to have the message be easy. And I, I think that while I understand where that came from or comes from it’s, that’s not so much the solution. It’s, it’s more about how do we utilize the tools at our disposal, marketing, you know, exceptional people who can be hospitable and invite people in. You know, how can we use our creativity that God has given us, our strategic minds to, to sort of bring these people into the fold, but then when they are, we can’t offer a message that’s half-hearted. I mean, you know, that’s totally discouraging and deflating. I mean, we, you know, for example, my husband is a convert, and you know, and he, he went to some, some church event with me, the other you know, a few years ago, once he had already converted to the Catholic faith.

Jennifer:

And he said, this just feels like exactly where I was when I was in the Protestant church. You know, I’m surprised that they’re not sharing the depth of what it means to be Catholic. And so I, I think that would be a challenge is, is to not be afraid to share it. But again, it’s, you can’t miss that strategic part of, of how can we bring people in in a way that is user friendly. So I think that would be it. And then I also, I think the people that are involved in the ministry also have to be an attractive representatives of the faith. So I think looking for people, of course, of course, we always need people in church ministry who work at the church. That’s critical. But I think to the extent that they can also have volunteers who are, you know, real young Catholics living and working in the world as that bridge to, to help with the invitation and the outreach, I think that’s critical as well, because there needs to be this sense that I can relate and, and connect. So I think in terms of the, the volunteers and the hospitality, that’s, that’s gotta be something that’s focused on. Yeah,

Edmund:

Those are great points. Well, thank you so much for being here. Where can people go if they want to attend a networking event or, or attend something that you guys are putting on themselves? And then also for parish leaders that wanna somehow get involved or support or, or just collaborate with you guys? Where could people go to find those things? Yeah,

Jennifer:

We would love that. So the best place is our website, young catholic professionals.org. It’s really easy to navigate from there to see where we have chapters in, in different cities to see what different types of events we have going on our national conference is a, is a great opportunity as well. And then I, I will just say with, with parish leaders, our goal with Y C P is actually to enliven these young Catholics and then, and then have them be more engaged in their parish. That’s, that’s the ultimate goal. And how we’re gonna really transform our church. So we really do wanna partner and collaborate. We host our events locally at different parishes intentionally so that we can, you know, champion parishes. We want young people to feel more comfortable talking to priests and, you know, and being engaged.

Jennifer:

We have community tables where we feature different parish events and volunteer opportunities. So I would say, you know, please reach out to us if you are a parish leader, we wanna work with you because the goal is actually to support your efforts. You know, we need Catholics who are on fire in their faith, young ones at the parish. And so yeah, it’s just an an invitation to connect and also just gratitude for, for everything you all are doing at the parish level that also supports what we’re doing and the body of Christ.

Edmund:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer. So young catholic professionals.org. You can go over there and we thank you so much. If you’re listening to this feel free to comment on the episode if you’re watching this on YouTube, or send something in if you’ve had experiences with, you know, ministering to this group of people, or, or if you are in this, this age group and want to share the needs that, that you’ve felt and experienced. Like I said, it really true. We really believe that we’re trying to unlock the truth and beauty of the catechism for the modern world and help people encounter it’s pulsating heart. Jesus Christ. We thank you for listening to this episode. You can listen all these great episodes@realtrue.org. You can go find our podcast and other videos that we have to help unlock the catechism. You can download your favorite podcast app and we’re there and we’re really excited for Jennifer being here. Thank you so much, and we will see you all in the next episode.